Meet the Author: Lauren Marie Fleming

This interview with Lauren Marie Fleming has it all—everything from sticker charts and poop emoji to finding your legacy. Lauren pulls no punches and offers a compelling, honest look at the perseverance that comes along with choosing a writing life.

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​Lauren Marie Fleming is a writer and coach helping people discover their story and tell it to the world. Her company, School for Writers®, helps aspiring authors write their books in a way that harnesses the transformational power of storytelling.

In her twenty years as a professional writer, Lauren has written multiple books, been featured in prominent publications including VICE and the Huffington Post, and spoken at prestigious conferences and colleges including Yale and BlogHer.

When not writing, coaching or traveling the world, Lauren can be found walking her dog on the beach in San Diego listening to a good audiobook. You can follow her on Instagram.

Tell me about writing Because Fat Girl.

It is technically my thirteenth book, depending on what you count as a book—but it's the first time I've gotten a traditional publisher. I have been told that my books are too queer, they're too fat, they're too extra, they don't quite fit into what we see sells, etc., etc.

​Because Fat Girl (affiliate link*) came out 20 years to the month since I started writing my first book, and seven years to the month since I wrote it—apparently I start writing books in September a lot—and it has had four agents. I have had five agents total. I have gone out on submission for multiple books.

This is the second time this book has gone out in submission, and throughout the process, I was told that it would never, never get where it is. I tell people that because if you looked at my social media in January 2025, you would think that I am this successful author who had some overnight success, who just skyrocketed.

My book is in airports and bookstores and people love it, and what you're actually seeing is 20 years of not letting publishing tell me I don't deserve to tell my story. That is the thing I try to tell people over and over again.

In January 2023, my agent called me and told me there's no way this book is ever going to sell. It's not going anywhere. In January 2025, it's in airports everywhere and it's a huge success. So, I reiterate that the difference between success and failure is perseverance. It's that simple. It's just perseverance and timing of the market.

Also, for people who think that what’s in their way might be racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. They're right. They're right. But don't stop, because we need your books now more than ever.

How do you cultivate perseverance?

I have stickers. That sounds really childish, almost, but I think that's actually the point. I was struggling with building a writing career and with my business, and I found this home that I loved and I couldn't afford it. I was like, “What am I doing with my life?”

I realized that a fear of rejection was holding me back in so many parts of my life in a way that it hadn't before my brother died, but suddenly my life, legacy, and mortality were on the line, and every single thing I did was this huge deal.

I had to make putting myself out there fun and exciting. I did this thing that I now teach, which I call 33 asks. I made a sticker chart where I went out and asked 33 people if they wanted to fill-in-the-blank and that has morphed into this movement in my life and other people's lives where we ask for what we want.

It has made it so I make six figures in my business. It made it so I can pay for this beautiful home I bought. It made it so I got when the thirteenth agent rejected me, I didn't stop till 33. Agents 14 through 22 got me eight agents interested in my book. I don't stop, and it builds in rewards.

That’s why I say sticker charts are the key to my success. I create a sticker chart toward a goal, and I don't let myself stop until I've at least asked 33 people if they want to help support me in some way. Maybe that's, “Come work with me on this as a client.” Maybe that's “Can you promote this?” Maybe that's, “Can you come to this event?”

Whatever it is, whatever I need help on, I don't stop until I've given myself 33 stickers, and that has been a game changer in my life, a complete game changer.

A lot of people can talk about how to get an agent and all of that stuff. There's so much on the internet about that, but for me, the publishing process has been surrounding myself with people who believe in me and know the industry is hard and who support me in doing it, even when I'm not gaining “traction.” Plus making it fun and rewarding. That combo is how I've gone through the publishing process.

It started with my first memoir. I got an agent, and then I had my self-help book, Bawdy Love, and then Because Fat Girl. I can talk about how to get an agent, all that stuff, the logistics of publishing, but so many people can talk about that. What I want to say is that the key to making it through that process is community and making it rewarding.

Are the 33 asks part of your writing process?

I don't use the same technique. For me, the 33 asks are directly connected to building resilience and putting myself out there and marketing. I have taken so many marketing classes, and to me, that's the easiest way to market. Ask 33 people each month if they want to work with you, or if they want to promote your book, or if they want to collaborate, or if they want to come to an event. It tends to be more of the business and career side.

Creatively, I tend to do spreadsheets that show me how much I'm writing each day. I use stickers to break it down in other ways. I create colorful sticker charts for most of what I do. I set a goal for a book, and then I can tick off each step so I can actually see myself writing a book. I mean, I teach writing a book. Writing a book is a long process.

This is why I have a program called “Write Your Friggin’ Book Already.” This is why it's lifetime access, because it took me seven years for one book, and that was after 20 years of being in the industry. We're here for the long haul.

The process has to be fun, so I break it down, and then I make a creative, colorful chart to mark it off. That allows me to have some fun with stickers and justify buying way too many pens and stickers. It also gives you the dopamine hit you need to keep going.

I'm bad at math, and spreadsheets do the math for me on how far I need to go until I hit my word count, or the amount of chapters I've edited. I love using Numbers on a Mac because it can be colorful.

What other strategies support your creative practice?

I have a program called “Write Your Friggin’ Book Already,” and I named it that because I found that writing programs focused so much on craft that I could never actually write. Or they were entrepreneur courses that had no craft and were like, “Get it out in a weekend! Make yourself a New York Times bestseller, an Amazon bestseller! All you’ve got to do is pay us $30,000, and we got this!”

I saw those two areas, and I was like, what does the middle ground look like? The middle ground is to write your friggin’ book already. Get your ass in that chair, have butt in chair time. In my program, we're always talking about butt in chair time. Show up imperfect and do butt in chair time.

One of my favorite things, which was a game changer for me and all of my clients, is we put poop emojis over everything in the first draft, because we want to encourage you to write shit. The shit is where you find the seeds that will then grow. It becomes the compost.

So many of us are too much in our heads. We've either taken way too many craft classes or we have read too many great books, and we're comparing our first draft to this person's final draft of their fifteenth book. We're remembering the crappy books we had to read in high school and trying to mimic what we've been told is good, or we're thinking about the published book too soon and silencing our voices because we're thinking about what others will say.

If you start with complete and total shit, you're reminded over and over and over again that it's supposed to be bad. It's supposed to be crap. If you're making it good, that means you're silencing yourself. So don't make it good. Just get it out. There might be good parts in it, but don't make it good.

I had a client who took an MFA program and had been working on her book for years, and she'd never gotten a first draft done. She'd never finished her book until she got in the program. It gives people permission to do it badly at first.

My biggest tip always is start with complete and total shit. Let it be shit, and don't show it to anybody until you're in your fifth draft, and only then show it to people who know that it's still shit because it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be bad. It can only get good if you start with bad.

A lot of the people I work with are over-achievers in other aspects of their life, and they don't make enough time for creativity. I tell them the point is bad. You get the gold star, you get the A in the class, if you make it bad. The goal is to hit 40,000 words, not make it good. And they're like, “Okay, I can hit that goal.”

So much of the writing craft conversation has this idea that we're critiquing each other from the start instead of letting us support each other from the start. A lot of people start with a critique group. That's where they go, they share their work with a critique group.

Don't share your shit. Let it be shit and don't share it until you're ready. I see so many people who start with critique groups because that's advice they're given, and then they never publish. They spend so much time on their first draft because they can never get it done because they're critiquing it way too soon. It's not time to critique it.

Because Fat Girl is out in the world and I don't care about critiques to this day. I care about whether this book has made an impact on people. Stop joining critique groups and start joining support groups. If a critique group helps you, great. But I see so many people start their first book with a critique group and never end up finishing because they are too in their feels about it.

What else has supported your creative practice?

Here’s a controversial thing that I've learned. There are some really big benefits to traditional publishing. There’s a reason I traditionally published Because Fat Girl, but traditional publishing can often feel—and I don't use this term lightly—like slave labor. The person who gets paid the least is often the writer. The person doing the most work, whose creativity it’s built on.

There is this idea that you should be so lucky to have us bless you with publishing your book. You should feel so lucky that you don't ever complain, you don't ever bring up the bad things that are happening, the horrible ways authors are treated and exploited.

I am lucky that I have 20 years of being an entrepreneur and I don't put up with that kind of bullshit. But it took 20 years of being an entrepreneur to not put up with that kind of bullshit. Even to this day, I find myself not wanting to talk back to my publisher, just in case.

I am lucky that I have a publisher who trusts my knowledge. Entangled has pushed back on ideas I've had and we've had dialogue, but they've always defaulted to, “You know your audience better than we do,” and that is so rare.

It's one of the reasons I've never taken book deals, even the one that I was offered, because it's so exploitative. I want people to know that being surrounded by a community of collaboration over competition is the most important thing. Because publishing is so exploitative. It makes you believe that other writers are your competition, and we're all vying for the number one spot of the New York Times bestsellers list, which happens so rarely.

We can all believe that person over there is going to take my spot on this list, in the way that marginalized communities are consistently told that we're each other's competition versus fighting the oppressors. If you have people who believe you're their competition, you're going to be stunted.

I only join and start communities that are based on the idea of collaboration over competition, that we're all in this together, that the rising tide raises all boats. The biggest thing that has propelled my career forward is collaboration over competition. We are all in this together against an industry that is set on exploiting us.

There are people that are good in this industry, and you have to find them, and then you have to stand up against the ones that aren't, because they're going to exploit you for all you're worth if they can. I hate to say that because I love writing. I love books and I love publishing in so many ways. There are some people doing beautiful things within the industry, but the industry as a whole, some of these contracts they make you sign are completely and totally exploitative.

I caution so many people to not sign their contracts. Get someone who knows contracts, get friends that will talk about the deals. Understand that, actually, your agent is working for the publisher, not you. Ask other people and not just your agent.

If you're in a group that's collaborative, they're going to share that. If your group gets competitive, they're going to hold it all in because they don't want to share their leg up with you. Be with people who want to share their leg up with you.

What kind of impact are you seeing from Because Fat Girl, and what's next for you creatively?

One of the things that's interesting about traditional publishing is I have no idea how well the book is actually doing. I know in theory. I'm seeing photos, I'm being tagged in stuff. I have people tell me, “Oh, my God, this book's trending. I saw it on TikTok.” I haven't ever found a TikTok video about it out of the blue. People are on different algorithms than me.

I have no idea. I'm tagged in a lot of stuff, but I have no idea if this book has sold the 24 copies that my mom personally bought—thanks, Mom—or if it has sold 24,000 copies. I have no idea. I feel like if it had sold 250,000 copies, I would know. I'd be having different calls with my publisher.

All I know is it has hit every single thing I needed it to hit. I'll get teary-eyed thinking about it. I've gotten to walk into a bookstore with my dad, and the book is right there, and see him shine. I have had people come up to me and say that the grief the character experienced related to theirs and helped them heal.

I walked into Jones On Third, a deli that I went to as my brother was dying in the Cancer Institute and as my nephew was dying in that same Cancer Institute, and their food had been so comforting to us. I wrote them into the book because of that, and I handed it to the owner and I told her it had been a dream of mine to hand this book to her. And she said, “It's always been a dream of mine to have someone write my store into a book.” I've had moments like that. We were both crying. We both made each other's dreams come true.

Sure, there is the New York Times bestsellers list, and I want to make it into a movie, and I want the Rock to do it. There's huge dreams. I don’t know what's next for this book, but I'm letting the universe tell me. I'm letting it be out in the world creatively.

I am very interested in self-publishing nonfiction and traditionally publishing fiction, and so I'm working on taking some of my old courses and programs about writing and making them books so they're more accessible.

I’m interested in more people joining my “Write Your Friggin’ Book Already” program so we can get more books out in the world, especially under the Trump administration. Plus the book bans that are happening right now and the silencing, especially of queer and people of color voices and disabled authors’ voices and neurodivergent and trans voices.

My programs are for people who have historically been underrepresented in publishing and their allies. My next thing is pouring into my clients. How do I get you to get your books out in the world? How do I pour this in?

You don't have to join an expensive program or go out and get an MFA to be a writer. I actually think that my life experience has made me a better writer than any of the courses I've taken on craft. Go out there and find the freebies. Go out there and find the free communities. Go out there and create your own communities.

You don't have to invest a lot. People will spend too much money on being told how to write instead of sitting and doing it. At schoolforwriters.com, we have a ton of freebies. If you are like,
“I want to get started, but I don't have any money,” we have support for you.

We offer scholarships in every single program. If you're sitting here thinking “I need help, but Lauren's program is way too expensive for me,” know that we have freebies and we have solutions.

I have some ideas for sequels for the book, too. I want to build this world more. I am working on a book based on one of the side characters, and I am also in the process of writing a TV series based off of the book and the world. I have no idea where it will go, but that is a fun creative practice that I'm enjoying.

I set some really big, creative dreams, and then I started the year with emergency surgery. I'm two weeks out from my gallbladder being removed, and only a year out from a hysterectomy. I’m like, “Okay, universe. I set all these goals. Maybe let me be healthy so I can reach them.”

What has been the key to persevering through all of the ups and downs?

Not to get too deep, but I watched my brother die in front of me while we tried to save his life. We knew he was probably going to die at some point from his cancer, but the way he ended up dying was shocking in that moment. He was at home, and my mother and I were trying to save his life, and he was in the arms of my mom, and I had this out of body experience where I was floating in the universe, and everything that mattered was a bright, shining star. Everything that didn't faded to black, and it gave me a North Star.

Granted, I had two years of a full nervous breakdown because that felt like way too much pressure, and I couldn't handle it. I was like, “Don't give me a purpose in life. Jesus Christ. What am I supposed to do here?” A full nervous breakdown. I had to get my own shit together to be able to embrace that.

But the thing that's kept me going is this idea of legacy, this idea that one day that will be me. One day, my life will end.

Right before he died, even though he was very ill, my brother went to Yosemite. Everybody told him, man, you're going to be too far away from a hospital. My brother had his jaw removed to try to stop his cancer. Everybody told him not to go. But he still went. He still went. He looked at the photos from there, and it was such an important thing for him.

Now, I always tell myself, “Go to Yosemite.” Go do the thing you need to do before you die. He needed to see Yosemite one last time before he died. I needed to get a book out in the world before I died. I needed to have loving relationships.

People are like, “Well, that's great. You had an out-of-body life experience watching your brother die, and you were able to get therapy and get it together. Cool, Lauren, but what about me, Joe Blow over here?”

It wasn't actually watching my brother die, because I have since watched, sadly, many family members die. I've lost a lot of friends and family to cancer. Old age too, but cancer has wracked my friend group, coming from a town that used a lot of pesticides.

I've seen people who've lost people and haven't changed their lives. I could have chosen not to, but what it did was made me realize that I want to leave a legacy. I thought that legacy was winning the Oscars and making a lot of money, but it really became down to three things.

One, am I telling my stories in the most honest, empathetic ways I can? Two, am I helping other people tell their stories in the most honest and empathetic ways they can? And three, is the ripple effect of what I'm doing with my life helping change the stories we tell ourselves as a society and making it more empathetic?

If I'm doing that, even if it's just one book, even if it's just one thing, even if it's just one post, even if it's just an interaction I have with the barista, then I'm living my legacy. I follow that legacy. I built that legacy, and I follow that legacy, and it's up on boards all around my house. I just keep reminding myself that my legacy is impactful and empathetic stories. I keep following that legacy and seeing where it takes me.

[Bailey’s note: There is no good segue out of such a huge topic, and we didn’t even try for one! I am so grateful for Lauren’s vulnerability and willingness to share her experiences.]

What's the best book you've read recently?

I'm going to mention two because I read in two different ways—one, for entertainment and to be better at my craft, and two, for education.

I adored Vera Wong’s Unsolicited Advice for Murderers by Jesse Q. Sutanto (affiliate link). I've been to San Francisco and Chinatown. I lived in San Francisco for my undergrad. I could imagine being there. It brings in various Asian cultures in a way that I think is really beautiful and honors each.

It was such a great, great book. It was so fun to read. I picked it up right after having my surgery, and it was the exact escape I needed. I don't care if you like romance, if you like murders, if you like thrillers, it hits everything. It's funny. I would suggest it to anybody.

I am also rereading Dialogue, by Robert McKee (affiliate link). It's the basis of how they teach screenwriting. When he came out with a dialogue book years ago, I thought, let's do this. I want to read about this. It has made me a better writer. If you enjoy my dialogue, it's because I've read Dialogue, and so I'm rereading it to get better at it.

He says, especially, how to volley back and forth between two people and internal dialogue. I would suggest anybody who's interested in the craft of conversation to read that book.

Meet the Author interviews are lightly edited for clarity.

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Lauren has so much powerful advice for writers in this interview. What are you willing to let be bad before you try to make it good? What is your legacy? How soon are you going to make a sticker chart?

As you ponder those questions, check out Because Fat Girl* and all of Lauren's other offers!

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